Curse

Rokzor · Aug 24, 2010, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Light and Peace

I got this:

Hello Rok,

As previously explained we will not be reversing our decision. We will keep your account banned.

Regards,

GM Amaury
Guild Wars Customer Support

To which I responded with:

Dear GMs

I've read this forum about how dangerous is farming at Tomb of the Primeval Kings these days and that there is a lot of bot-activity there.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/d...0449477p2.html. This is the link to that thread.
I know you're trying your best at catching botters, but you've made a terrible mistake. I was not botting, I think it just seemed that way.
Please, at least provide me with solid evidence if I was botting. Or log in into my account and check all my items and such. I've also emailed [email protected] just as Gaile Gray has suggested.
If I buy a new key and start all over, then I might get banned again by mistake. So I cannot risk that.
If you could just please provide me with evidence so I can see where it went wrong. Terminating an account is a big thing and I think a customer is right to know what exactly has caused the ban.
Thank you
~ Rok

and:

Dear GMs

I've heard that there was a lot of bot-cleaning going on in Tomb of the Primeval Kings. One of my friends, who also posted a ticket to You, was also there. He got banned just the way I have. So, please, do all it takes to research this. A deep-analysis clearly isn't enough. Me and my friend probably got swept away with all those bots running around are were horribly mistaken as ones ourselves.
I wouldn't be such a nuisance to You, but when a person is innocent, he would keep on trying to prove it.

Thank you
Rok

I'm still waiting for a reply now but I seriously don't know what more can I do.

~Rokzor

Karate Jesus · Aug 24, 2010, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rokzor

I'm still waiting for a reply now but I seriously don't know what more can I do.

If they tell you "no" again, try appealing to Gaile on her GWW talk page. Sometimes she can be more kind than other support staff.

And you can always try again later. Like I said, over half of the big-name botters have gotten their accounts back. Mostly because they lied, but still....it happens.

Rokzor · Aug 24, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50

I will keep on updating my ticket to NCSoft Support, and I will never give up. I was reading this other thread, which is 4 years old, and a user named leprekan shared his wisdod, as he was also banned some time ago by error. He said that we should blow up the support ticket so it can get past the autorespond stage. When you've send enough, a supervisor should be sent and address it properly. But if GM Amaury is a real GM, then he is very cold-hearted.

~ Rokzor

Miss Puddles · Aug 24, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

The only macros I use are
G1: F12+c
G2: enter+/+r+e+s+i+g+n+enter

If those are seriously ban-worthy actions, there is something wrong with the system, my friends.

Firebaall · Aug 24, 2010, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

It's perfectly possible to run a bot and be 'there' staring at your screen though.

Don't be coy. You're not being cute or funny.

If you didn't understand that "there" means you're actively playing the game with the macros, there's a bigger problem with you that I can't help you with.

Light And Peace · Aug 24, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Well, end of day 2. No new emails today. Hopefully, this will get resolved tommorrow.

Rokzor · Aug 25, 2010, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light And Peace

Hopefully, this will get resolved tommorrow.

I would like to believe that also, but the way I got my replies I have lost almost all of my hope. No explanations at all. Nothing.
After I got my last reply from them, I have updated my ticket 3 times and I still didn't receive any new replies. I think that they could have just ignored me. But still, I will continue to send messages because I am completely innocent. I also mentioned I am not alone in this situation. But they probably don't even want to hear anything more from me, or any other customers that were banned by a complete error.
I still have some hope left in me, but it's just cruel to reply to the customers with depressing emails such as: This is our final decision. We will not unban your account.

~Rokzor

Aba · Aug 25, 2010, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

The only macros I use are
G1: F12+c
G2: enter+/+r+e+s+i+g+n+enter

If those are seriously ban-worthy actions, there is something wrong with the system, my friends.

OP...hope You get this resolved.

Anyways
The way I see it (and maybe anet sees it).
Guildwars does not need second party programs, macros, or anything else to play....
so why do you need it???

You need it to make your time in Guildwars more simple and quicker...

So in simple terms you are doing something everyone else is not, giving you an advantage over others.
It all comes down to ......
You dont need all these macros and 2nd party programs....

So dont use em unless you dont care about getting banned.

Light And Peace · Aug 25, 2010, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

OP...hope You get this resolved.

Anyways
The way I see it (and maybe anet sees it).
Guildwars does not need second party programs, macros, or anything else to play....
so why do you need it???

You need it to make your time in Guildwars more simple and quicker...

So in simple terms you are doing something everyone else is not, giving you an advantage over others.
It all comes down to ......
You dont need all these macros and 2nd party programs....

So dont use em unless you dont care about getting banned.

Lately!?!?
Sadly for along time now Guru has filled with haters and trolls so dont expect anything but...

1st, it's not the macros that was the problem.

Secondary, the 3rd party ap that there are referring to is probably a bot, which I didn't run. I have no 3rd party software installed outside of multi-launch actually, which I haven't run in a while. That multi-launch has already gotta the seal of "approval" from GM's along with texmod. Keep in mind multilaunch isn't "installed" it's unpacked and the exe is self contained.

So, basically, I was banned for farming. Farming in an area that there were a lot of bots. I got roped in with them and that's not fair to me banned with them just because I have a similiar build or ran a certain direction or whatever they use to "screen" for bots. Obviously, it's failed several people and that's letting down them and not just myself.

The implication of this means that anyone can get banned for farming in the wrong place at the wrong time with anything that resembles a bot build or bot action.

I, once heard, in rata sum, some people discussing this about 4 months ago that some people got banned because they were just too good at raptor farming and appeared to be bots. I passed that off as BS, but now since I am a victim of said issues, I can only bring it up to the community here at guildwars guru because it is a significant problem.

Now, I agree with KarateJesus that it's important that Anet capture and ban such bots but it can not justify banning innocent people as part of the collateral damage. That is unacceptable. That is unprofessional and definitely unethical.

The macro's do and don't can be debated agnosium, but I think we would all have to agree that innocent people shouldn't be banned in the first place and kept banned because they matched their "profiling."

MisterB · Aug 25, 2010, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

The way I see it (and maybe anet sees it).
Guildwars does not need second party programs, macros, or anything else to play....
so why do you need it???

You need it to make your time in Guildwars more simple and quicker...

So in simple terms you are doing something everyone else is not, giving you an advantage over others.
It all comes down to ......
You dont need all these macros and 2nd party programs....

So dont use em unless you dont care about getting banned.

Please stop telling other people how they should play the game they paid for, and leave it up to the developers of the game to decide what the rules and their enforcement of them will be. Thank you. Using third party software is not supported, may result in termination if it is used to break the rules, and is used at your own risk. That is not the same thing as being forbidden altogether.

Light And Peace · Aug 25, 2010, 02:44 AM // 02:44

To those who are joining in, I met quite a few people who say they have been banned inappropriately now. Please send me a PM, and I will add your name to a list of people at the 1st post of this thread.

Now, I can't confirm your validity in the matter, but I do feel that you have every right to assert your innocence as I have and Rokzor here and hopefully the community here will understand the implications of being banned inappropriately and how it can affect everyone's gameplay in the end.

Chrisworld · Aug 25, 2010, 03:19 AM // 03:19

I really hope the truly innocent can be unbanned, but if you do get unbanned, just steer clear of macros and farming for a while, at least until this is cleared up. An if you MUST farm, farm somewhere far away from those bots. There are areas in the game you can farm for some extra cash, and farm casually, not constantly. Actually when I said steer clear of MACROS for a while I mean't forever... just because.. Let me tell a story here. I've farmed in bot ridden areas many times on more than one occasion. I have NEVER used a Macro or Macro keyboard in my life on ANY game, and didn't farm more than a few runs. Only Macro device is really my mouse, but it's just got a couple of extra buttons that can be assigned to... a single function at best and aren't even assigned in GW. It's a Dynex mouse.

Anyways... not one suspension or ban on my account... ever. I don't know how it's so easy for me, but it has to be just as easy for you all if you just wouldn't jump in the "in" crowd and go around using macros and farming the shit out of areas.

Sorry for the rant but I just try to look out for others here, thats all.

Light And Peace · Aug 25, 2010, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld [AMP]

I really hope the truly innocent can be unbanned, but if you do get unbanned, just steer clear of macros and farming for a while, at least until this is cleared up. An if you MUST farm, farm somewhere far away from those bots. There are areas in the game you can farm for some extra cash, and farm casually, not constantly.

There is no argument there. I don't plan on farming again, alone. I will have to go to dungeons and do UW/FOW or DOA. Provided my account gets unbanned.

I don't feel safe raptor, vaettir, ToPk, solo UW farming at this point. I've lost all trust in the system at this point.

I understand this isn't all Anet's fault.

The TRUE problem is the bots. Without the bots, we would haven't any of these issues. If the bots were gone, we wouldn't be worried about getting banned looking like bots.

The primary problem is the bots. I understand this, but I do not condone banning of innocent accounts. What is alarming is that I have ignored people saying this in the past, and now that it has happened to me, I really feel like the fool.

How many accounts have been banned in the past that were truly innocent? What can we do to prevent this from happening again? What are the solutions that Anet can employ that would stop this? Is there anything that can give us the freedom from the suppression of freedom from bots?

It's complicated. It's okay to make mistakes. It's not okay to ignore them and not fix them.

It's very easy to be cynical and say someone is lying. I'm sure some of you reading this right now feel that way. I assure you that if it happened to me, it can happen to you. Please take this seriously and give me those who proclaim innocence the benefit of the doubt.

Lanier · Aug 25, 2010, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Figured I would go ahead and throw in my 2 cents.

About a month ago, I spent several weeks extensively farming topk. When I say extensively, i mean i gave up my social life those couple of weeks as i obtained enough ectos for my obby armor and enough cash for the shards and other stuff for my armor. All in all, I spent a shit ton of time there, farming 10-15 ectos per day. I don't know what all this macro stuff is, but if you farm normally, there should be nothing to fear. Of course mistakes are always made (which im sure is what happened to the OP assuming he is telling the truth) but to everyone else out there, i wouldn't worry about farming topk.

@ OP: man... that sucks. Hope your issue gets resolved. Iv heard a lot of stories about how Anet's support is unwilling to spend time looking into bans, and i really feel bad for anyone who was wrongfully banned and who isn't able to get support due to GW support's laziness or whatever.

Light And Peace · Aug 25, 2010, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Figured I would go ahead and throw in my 2 cents.

About a month ago, I spent several weeks extensively farming topk. When I say extensively, i mean i gave up my social life those couple of weeks as i obtained enough ectos for my obby armor and enough cash for the shards and other stuff for my armor. All in all, I spent a shit ton of time there, farming 10-15 ectos per day. I don't know what all this macro stuff is, but if you farm normally, there should be nothing to fear. Of course mistakes are always made (which im sure is what happened to the OP assuming he is telling the truth) but to everyone else out there, i wouldn't worry about farming topk.

@ OP: man... that sucks. Hope your issue gets resolved. Iv heard a lot of stories about how Anet's support is unwilling to spend time looking into bans, and i really feel bad for anyone who was wrongfully banned and who isn't able to get support due to GW support's laziness or whatever.

The macro stuff is not related. It was something I thought might have been why I was banned but it is clearly not the case. The macro was very short and used in PVE and really very little impact on play.

In regards to your farming, I'm not sure what triggers the profile for a bot in the TOPK, it might be the order of the skills that you have them. It might be the path that you take to ball up the mobs. It might be the path you take to go to sell. I don't know, but it appears to have caught a few people that claim to be innocent, including myself.

So I guess we could all get together and compare notes. The order of my skills for the most part were:
1) Deadly Paradox
2) Shadowform
3) Shroud of darkness
4) Chaos Storm
5) Ether Nightmare
6) Cry of Pain
7) Wastrel's Demise
8) Death's Charge

I did try several different builds during this time, but this is the one I used the most at the end. I found this to be the most effective without scatter.

I used youtube to figure out how to bundle the mobs, which is on the PVX chaos ledge page.

Rokzor · Aug 25, 2010, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Wow, now I got this:

Hello Rok,

As previously explained we will not be reversing our decision in this case and we will keep you account banned.

Please do not reply to this ticket or create a new one regarding this issue as we will not reply anymore.

Regards

GM Amaury
The Guild Wars Support Team

I replied:

Dear GMs

I am sorry but as I said before, I will insist on this. I have to. If there is any way to prove my innocence, then please tell me what must I do.
Me and some other players got swept away while you were cleaning the bots in Tombs. This is common. A lot of people are in the same situation as I am, trying to prove to you that this was a mistake.
I have always been loyal to this game, I haven't bought all 4 games for nothing. I've never used cheats. It's a mistake, and I will continue to update this ticket. This is something that I must do.

Thank you
Rok

So, what now? I can't just leave this alone. Over 4 years of gameplay and hard work. A lot of cash and nice characters... Maybe you. Light, can help me out? If you'll send the names...

~ Rokzor

Light And Peace · Aug 25, 2010, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I got another denial from customer service. I talked to a few people online about this and those that had been banned before inappropriate had luck in getting unbanned by telling the GM's to look at positives and proving those instead of proving a negative (which is theory is harder to do). I have a feeling that have a very sensitive test that when it is positive it is 99.9 percent sure to catch bots. Unfortunately, it isn't specific which means false positives come through and unless they employ a confirmatory test that takes out the false positives, they have a major problem. For example, in medicine, there is a screening test for pancreatitis that's very sensitive called amylase, if it's high, it means you MIGHT have pancreatitis, if it's low, you don't have it for sure. The second test is the lipase. If the lipase is high, then you definitely have pancreatitis PROVIDED that the amylase was high. If you amylase was low, but have a high lipase, unlikely that you have pancreatitis. If you have a high amylase and low lipase, unlikely you have pancreatitis. Both need to be positive for it to be a positive test.

Well 2 things occur out of this type of interaction with guild wars.

1) Fear.

2) Disappointment.

When they inappropriately ban someone, how does that person feel safe that it won't happen again? You got people that spend thousands of hours, lots of money *multiple accounts, costumes, upgrades* to have it wisked away without any sense of reasoning.

I personally will never feel comfortably farming anywhere near any significant botting activity, which appears to be everywhere anyhow.

Just a no win situation. It's ruined the guildwars experience for me and my family. Hope we can get out of it. My wife and daughter play guildwars with me on weekends as well.

Quote:

Hello Richard,

We understand your concern, but I'm afraid that we cannot disclose the information we have on record about this case to detect the use of third-party programs to automate the behaviour of the characters. We need to keep some of this information to preserve the efficiency of the bot detecting system.

I am afraid that your account will stay banned and we will not be reversing the decision in this case.

Thank you for your understanding.

GM Amaury
Guild Wars Customer Support

My response to this:
Actually, you are absolutely incorrect in the assumption that I have a 3rd party program. I have been discussing this on the forums on guildwars guru. Your banning method has been proven to be inaccurate in the past. You have banned innocent accounts repeatedly in the hopes to stopping bots. I demand that you review my account personally. I want you to see that there is no repeat consistent behavior in ToPK. I had changed builds repeatedly as I was learning the build myself. I had been farming there for a total of 2-3 days maximum. I made repeatedly mistakes as I was learning the farm without any assistance. I did not use macro's at all farming. The timing of my button presses were unique. Many instances, I had maximized my inventory and had to drop stuff to salvage materials. All of this points to NO third party program. No BOT. So, if you don't make an effort to review my case PERSONALLY, 1) I want a phone number to talk to someone personally on the phone as they physcially review my case with me on the phone and I _WILL_ record the conversation. 2) I want your supervisor's email address or contact information.

I have clearly shown that I am willing to work with you on this case. But clearly, you have no intention in meeting me halfway in regards to this. I have paid good money and put in well over 1000 hours of my personal time to play this game.

There are clear positive evidence that I do not have a 3rd party program aiding me in any way shape or form that goes against the EULA.

I am a physician. I know what it takes to have a positive test. There is both sensitive screens and specific screens. You have a very good sensitive test, but you are catching false positives which means you have a very bad specific test. You need a second test to confirm and make sure you don't have false positives. This would mean looking to see if inventories are full and player needs to evaluate their inventory. Things like that.

You clearly have a serious problem on many levels. You have technical difficulties. You have not address any of my requests, especially phone numbers for tech support and customer service which I asked for last time.

Address my concerns, I hope we can resolve this civilly. I am a physician, a professional. You have been treating me like a child, a cheater, and I don't appreciate it.

Sincerely,

-------------

In addition to this, I had took random farming breaks. I took different run paths to ball up monsters. I identified certain golds in my inventory while farming. There are a lot of things that I did that I don't think a bot would do. So, I think you really haven't review my account thoroughly, I suggest you take another look.

Rokzor · Aug 25, 2010, 12:27 PM // 12:27

I've also posted my troubles into Gaile Gray's user page on GWW. I hope that she will answer me and hopefully, we can get this solved like normal persons, without cold-hearted GMs -.- I'd really want my Guild Wars account back. There's no point of buying a new key, I could get banned again. Same with GW2. I won't buy it if this doesn't get resolved. They clearly have some major issues with their bannings but they just don't seem to care.

Light, I humbly ask of you. I see that you know your stuff. Unlike me, you know how to manipulate the situation. I would be forever grateful to you if you could post a good name for me, as I do not know how to manipulate them like you do. I'm 17 years old, so I think I don't have enough experience in this.
Thank you
~ Rokzor

EDIT: Maybe if you could get support from your guildmates as well, maybe it would help. I told my guildmates and some of them posted a ticket for me, but I think they just ignore them... I don't know, they're just not being reasonable.

Light And Peace · Aug 25, 2010, 01:57 PM // 13:57

With all that I have written, I have gotten no where, and appear to have gotten the same automated-type responses as you have. I seriously doubt that what I write has any impact on their decision.

Guilty until proven innocent.

I've just about given up and I've written on Gaile's talk page.

The BBB gives Arenanet an A, btw.

Karate Jesus · Aug 25, 2010, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light And Peace

The BBB gives Arenanet an A, btw.

But NCSoft has a C or something.

Doesn't matter. Light and Rok, we know that this is hard on you guys, but this thread is becoming your personal bitchfest, and that's pretty pointless.

Just update us if something new happens. Telling us that nothing is new isn't.....new.